Re: Results for gluing gum rubber soles
Robert Doubleday
Description
Collection
Title:
Re: Results for gluing gum rubber soles
Creator:
Robert Doubleday
Date:
11/2/2009
Text:
My original post was:
> Hello, I am having difficulty in gluing the gum rubber soling and crepe for a height buildup on a pair of Doc Martin shoes. I have tried Masters, but after letting it dry over night the layers were easily pulled apart. Does anyone have any suggestions?
> Thank you,
> Robert Doubleday, CPO
> Orthotechs O & P
*
I apologize for taking so long to compile each of the replies. I am truly amazed at the volume of replies and the wide variety of solutions. Although I have always refused to accept these types of shoes in the past, I was led through a moment of compassion to try and find out. Through the assistance of this incredible list serve, I have found that even old dogs can learn new tricks. I decided on the Renia- Colle De Cologne with Primer. One coat and 25 minutes later, they adhered perfectly. Thank you to all. Robert Doubleday, CPO, Orthotechs O & P, Kearney, Nebraska
*
Try spreading a thin layer of super glue or cobblers glue all around both pieces to be glued. Once dried you should have a rough sandpaper like surface that can be glued with Masters. This has helped with oil-resistant soles and other hard to glue soling. May work on the gum soling too. Good luck.
*
I have old UK made [yellow stich] Doc Martin shoes.
these have the original airwair soles and I have used shoe goo to fix them...see tinyurl.com/yhm7n2g or <URL Redacted>
FYI: from 1 April 2003, to January 2007 Doc Martin were made only in china so these have different soles possibly , as of 07
Vintage Doc Martin can be purchased at the Dr. Martens USA website
*
Fast-Fix works very well with this type of material. It essentially is
industrial super glue.
*
Use a vinyl glue first then use the masters over the top of the vinyl glue,
barge makes one called vinyl stick. We used to do allot of shoe work and
that works best. Good luck any questions call.
*
take a look to this web page may be you'll find a solution.
<URL Redacted>
*
We do not do not accept gum rubber shoes for build ups. If I cannot be sure it will hold, I do not accept them. Too much liability.
*
Have you tried crazy glue, I have used it on shoe soles when Barge cement does not hold.
*
I have used Barge cement on Doc Martins soles in the past. I separated the sole on the band saw and then coated the bottom of the shoe with Barge and also the layer of cloud material I was using for the build up and let them dry. Then re-heat both surfaces with a heat gun which reactivates the adhesive and stick them together. Then coat the bottom again and also the top of the sole that was cut off, let dry and then reheat with a heat gun and then stick them together. I learned this trick from a local shoe repair shop.
*
use fastfix glue put a coat and let it dry and then use the barge
*
Try a coating of supper glue before gluing the two parts.
*
I have not done orthotics few quite some time, but I do remember on some surfaces it seemed as if the materials would absorb the glue up and the materials would just fall apart. On those stubborn materials we would smear super glue over the sole (with a glove on of course). Once the super glue dries, take some sand paper and lightly scuff the shine off the super glue. Once complete, just go ahead and glue both surfaces like you have done before. That should do the trick.
*
Fast fix or jet set
*
Call Atlas Supply in Sacramento, California
*
yeah, it's extrusion polyurethane sole and nothing sticks to it. you need to get a free sample of rhenia glue from cascade. will last you about a year. i always ask my patients to, if they buy a new pr of shoes, to place a deposit at a shoe store, and bring ONE shoe of their choice for eval. quick tackle with barge/masters/poly gives a nice answer to question if you were to be able to work with it.
*
Apply a complete, thin layer of your favorite super-glue to the bottom of the shoe with a small paint brush. Do not overwork and do not rub or apply instant drying spray. Let it dry for an hour or more, right side up, so no glue can potentially run on to the upper. Once dry, you will find that your Masters glue will stick wonderfully to the layerr of superglue and the crepe for a good permanent bond. It will be rigid, but not usually of issue because the build-up will make it rigid anyway. Also, be in a WELL ventilated area, it is strong.
*
You need to use either a primer before you glue, or, to make things even
easier, you can use something called ATOM which is a super glue type
adhesive. Put on thin layer of the atom on the surface with a spatula, let
dry and then apply the barge or jet set to both surfaces. You will be amazed
how well it will stick. (don't forget to remove the tread from the sole of
the shoe as much as possible).
*
Renia- Colle De Cologne with Primer
*
I think this product would work very well:
<URL Redacted>
You can buy a 10 pack for $16.00.
*
Hi Robert: I have had good results gluing that type of sole by roughing it and then cleaning it with thinner, apply a liberal coat of PVC pipe glue and let it dry at least 30 minutes, use a rough sandpaper to put some scrathes in it, then apply the Masters and let it dry at least 5 minutes. It should be ready to go that way BUT I have had a few come loose. I have not had any come loose if I started with the first layer being 1/4 crepe (that I cut about 3/4 larger that the sole) roughed,cleaned, and mastered. I then heat the crepe for 1 minute at 350-400 degree oven then apply it directly to the sole and press it for a few seconds. This works for most tennis shoes as well. You can call me if you have questions. This has worked well for me.
*
have you thought of contacting doc martins?
*
You may need to use a polyurathane adhesive since the makeup of either the gum soling or the Doc Martin sole material has PU in it.
*
Super glue
*
Have you tried any of the Renia glues? They are superior to all the others. Renia is expensive but worth it with difficult jobs. We get it through PEL.
*
You're letting it dry too long! Read instructions on can. For difficult jobs try thinning glue, with the correct solvent, and applying at least three coats with about 30-minute dry time interval. After the final coat drys, should just be tacky to touch, heat both sides with heat gun and press together.
I use Barge instead of Masters, stinks less to my nose and seems not as gummy.
Why are you using gum rubber? It's heavy, hard to glue, and picks up all manner of dirt and lint. I'd only use in situations needing extreme surface traction.
For the really difficult cases I discovered a trick years ago. DANGEROUS! If you're going to try do so on old throw-away shoe first. Using the thinned glue, after 2nd application, while glue still wet, light with match. Preferable to do outside, a lot of smoke and flame. Hold shoe so flame raises away from shoe. As flame reduces blow out. The surface will have bubbles of carbon, scrape these off with back of knife blade. Repeat. This seems to vulcanize the glue to substrate and provides gluing surface for additional glue layers. Works well even with cheap shoes having PVC soling. Then apply two additional coats and proceed as normal.
*
The solution to this is to use Renia Ortec with the right primer. The primer is all going to depend on what type of material is on the Doc Marten. Whether it is Polyeurethane or PVC, use the poly primer or PVC primer. Under the unlikely case that the Doc Marten is not a genuine Doc Marten it would be made with TPR, in which you would need to use the TPR primer.
*
Use Colle De Cologne from Frankford Leather Co., Inc Phone 1-800-245-5555. Glue both surfaces, let it sit for an hour, lightly heat it up and glue. Works great. It must dry for an hour or you've waisted your time.
*
I use drops of superglue aroung the perimeter of the shoe, 10-12 drops. I spread with tongue depressor so entire outside edge is covered. Then glue as usual. You only need to do this with the gum rubber, not the crepe you are adding.
*
Endoskeletal glue. I believe it's a Fillauer product. It is important to follow the directions.
Sent from a special place
*
The trouble with some shoes is that the soles are oil resistant and therefore glue resistant.
*
Early on in my career my tech's would tell me not to give them a shoe with gum rubber soles because the could not get it to bond. I would always tell my pts. that they would need to purchase a shoe with different sole material for that reason. They all were understanding. If you have gotten any responses suggesting otherwise I would very much like to learn about it. Please forward any such suggestions.
*
We use a product Fast Fix Plus from Sure Foot Corporation. This is an acrylic glue that adheres to the rubber soles. It takes a little longer so we use a catalyst to speed the reaction.
*
coat both surfaces with 2 part epoxy---let harden over night. Then use
barge!
*
I would suggest trying the Renia Ortec Glue. I am able to send you a
sample to try it out. I have used it with soling applications and also with
different materials and it has worked well.
Please let me know if you would be interested. All of our products are
available at www.euroorthotics.com
*
Did you hammer the layers after putting them together? With masters glue it is best to kep the glue thin and use it sparingly. But the pieces need to be hammered quite a bit for the glue to work properly.
*
I had a pair around and decided to give this a go. I don't know build up height and model you are using of Doc Marten but sole is usually the same.
Glue will not stick to rubber doesn't work as you found.
Bu I did put some glue on the crepe and sole just to get a little stick to help keep things in place.
What I tried is below and I hope it helps.
1. Grinded the sole flat and used the bandsaw to trim off the heel and grinded smooth..
2. Used some tack nails on a small piece of crepe to have a source to glue to. crepe was an 1/8 or two. I used some 1 1/2 nails for the heal which had a flat head on them. The heel on this pr was high about 1 1/2 inches and I used smaller nails for the sole. doc Marten uses a board last construction so it is difficult to go through the sole but its possible. In talking to the rep years ago I don't remember if its heat bonded or direct inject. Sorry I should know that..
4. This gave me a good surface to work with for gluing and for the build up.
5. On step I did miss was masking off the sole for grinding you'll want to do that because when you grind into the sides is looks a little interesting..and you can't cover it up with anything so be aware.
Granted it was time consuming having to put in nails just in the right place. I worked along the edges to make sure that there was very little separation and a little frustrating at times, but over all it turned out well.
good luck hope this helps
*
Try Shoe Goop. You can get it from SPS but much cheaper from Walmart in the shoe section.
*
When we can't use Masters, we use Colle de Cologne. We get ours from MacPherson Leather in Seattle but most sellers who handle Masters should have that available. Glue both sides, let set, glue again, heat and stick. I've also used super glue with the accelerator spray. But then you have to be really fast, only have one or two seconds after spraying. Apply glue to one side, spray the other and bond.
*
********************
To unsubscribe, send a message to: <Email Address Redacted> with
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message.
If you have a problem unsubscribing,or have other
questions, send e-mail to the moderator
Paul E. Prusakowski,CPO at <Email Address Redacted>
OANDP-L is a forum for the discussion of topics
related to Orthotics and Prosthetics.
Public commercial postings are forbidden. Responses to inquiries
should not be sent to the entire oandp-l list. Professional credentials
or affiliations should be used in all communications.
********************
To unsubscribe, send a message to: <Email Address Redacted> with
the words UNSUB OANDP-L in the body of the
message.
If you have a problem unsubscribing,or have other
questions, send e-mail to the moderator
Paul E. Prusakowski,CPO at <Email Address Redacted>
OANDP-L is a forum for the discussion of topics
related to Orthotics and Prosthetics.
Public commercial postings are forbidden. Responses to inquiries
should not be sent to the entire oandp-l list. Professional credentials
or affiliations should be used in all communications.
> Hello, I am having difficulty in gluing the gum rubber soling and crepe for a height buildup on a pair of Doc Martin shoes. I have tried Masters, but after letting it dry over night the layers were easily pulled apart. Does anyone have any suggestions?
> Thank you,
> Robert Doubleday, CPO
> Orthotechs O & P
*
I apologize for taking so long to compile each of the replies. I am truly amazed at the volume of replies and the wide variety of solutions. Although I have always refused to accept these types of shoes in the past, I was led through a moment of compassion to try and find out. Through the assistance of this incredible list serve, I have found that even old dogs can learn new tricks. I decided on the Renia- Colle De Cologne with Primer. One coat and 25 minutes later, they adhered perfectly. Thank you to all. Robert Doubleday, CPO, Orthotechs O & P, Kearney, Nebraska
*
Try spreading a thin layer of super glue or cobblers glue all around both pieces to be glued. Once dried you should have a rough sandpaper like surface that can be glued with Masters. This has helped with oil-resistant soles and other hard to glue soling. May work on the gum soling too. Good luck.
*
I have old UK made [yellow stich] Doc Martin shoes.
these have the original airwair soles and I have used shoe goo to fix them...see tinyurl.com/yhm7n2g or <URL Redacted>
FYI: from 1 April 2003, to January 2007 Doc Martin were made only in china so these have different soles possibly , as of 07
Vintage Doc Martin can be purchased at the Dr. Martens USA website
*
Fast-Fix works very well with this type of material. It essentially is
industrial super glue.
*
Use a vinyl glue first then use the masters over the top of the vinyl glue,
barge makes one called vinyl stick. We used to do allot of shoe work and
that works best. Good luck any questions call.
*
take a look to this web page may be you'll find a solution.
<URL Redacted>
*
We do not do not accept gum rubber shoes for build ups. If I cannot be sure it will hold, I do not accept them. Too much liability.
*
Have you tried crazy glue, I have used it on shoe soles when Barge cement does not hold.
*
I have used Barge cement on Doc Martins soles in the past. I separated the sole on the band saw and then coated the bottom of the shoe with Barge and also the layer of cloud material I was using for the build up and let them dry. Then re-heat both surfaces with a heat gun which reactivates the adhesive and stick them together. Then coat the bottom again and also the top of the sole that was cut off, let dry and then reheat with a heat gun and then stick them together. I learned this trick from a local shoe repair shop.
*
use fastfix glue put a coat and let it dry and then use the barge
*
Try a coating of supper glue before gluing the two parts.
*
I have not done orthotics few quite some time, but I do remember on some surfaces it seemed as if the materials would absorb the glue up and the materials would just fall apart. On those stubborn materials we would smear super glue over the sole (with a glove on of course). Once the super glue dries, take some sand paper and lightly scuff the shine off the super glue. Once complete, just go ahead and glue both surfaces like you have done before. That should do the trick.
*
Fast fix or jet set
*
Call Atlas Supply in Sacramento, California
*
yeah, it's extrusion polyurethane sole and nothing sticks to it. you need to get a free sample of rhenia glue from cascade. will last you about a year. i always ask my patients to, if they buy a new pr of shoes, to place a deposit at a shoe store, and bring ONE shoe of their choice for eval. quick tackle with barge/masters/poly gives a nice answer to question if you were to be able to work with it.
*
Apply a complete, thin layer of your favorite super-glue to the bottom of the shoe with a small paint brush. Do not overwork and do not rub or apply instant drying spray. Let it dry for an hour or more, right side up, so no glue can potentially run on to the upper. Once dry, you will find that your Masters glue will stick wonderfully to the layerr of superglue and the crepe for a good permanent bond. It will be rigid, but not usually of issue because the build-up will make it rigid anyway. Also, be in a WELL ventilated area, it is strong.
*
You need to use either a primer before you glue, or, to make things even
easier, you can use something called ATOM which is a super glue type
adhesive. Put on thin layer of the atom on the surface with a spatula, let
dry and then apply the barge or jet set to both surfaces. You will be amazed
how well it will stick. (don't forget to remove the tread from the sole of
the shoe as much as possible).
*
Renia- Colle De Cologne with Primer
*
I think this product would work very well:
<URL Redacted>
You can buy a 10 pack for $16.00.
*
Hi Robert: I have had good results gluing that type of sole by roughing it and then cleaning it with thinner, apply a liberal coat of PVC pipe glue and let it dry at least 30 minutes, use a rough sandpaper to put some scrathes in it, then apply the Masters and let it dry at least 5 minutes. It should be ready to go that way BUT I have had a few come loose. I have not had any come loose if I started with the first layer being 1/4 crepe (that I cut about 3/4 larger that the sole) roughed,cleaned, and mastered. I then heat the crepe for 1 minute at 350-400 degree oven then apply it directly to the sole and press it for a few seconds. This works for most tennis shoes as well. You can call me if you have questions. This has worked well for me.
*
have you thought of contacting doc martins?
*
You may need to use a polyurathane adhesive since the makeup of either the gum soling or the Doc Martin sole material has PU in it.
*
Super glue
*
Have you tried any of the Renia glues? They are superior to all the others. Renia is expensive but worth it with difficult jobs. We get it through PEL.
*
You're letting it dry too long! Read instructions on can. For difficult jobs try thinning glue, with the correct solvent, and applying at least three coats with about 30-minute dry time interval. After the final coat drys, should just be tacky to touch, heat both sides with heat gun and press together.
I use Barge instead of Masters, stinks less to my nose and seems not as gummy.
Why are you using gum rubber? It's heavy, hard to glue, and picks up all manner of dirt and lint. I'd only use in situations needing extreme surface traction.
For the really difficult cases I discovered a trick years ago. DANGEROUS! If you're going to try do so on old throw-away shoe first. Using the thinned glue, after 2nd application, while glue still wet, light with match. Preferable to do outside, a lot of smoke and flame. Hold shoe so flame raises away from shoe. As flame reduces blow out. The surface will have bubbles of carbon, scrape these off with back of knife blade. Repeat. This seems to vulcanize the glue to substrate and provides gluing surface for additional glue layers. Works well even with cheap shoes having PVC soling. Then apply two additional coats and proceed as normal.
*
The solution to this is to use Renia Ortec with the right primer. The primer is all going to depend on what type of material is on the Doc Marten. Whether it is Polyeurethane or PVC, use the poly primer or PVC primer. Under the unlikely case that the Doc Marten is not a genuine Doc Marten it would be made with TPR, in which you would need to use the TPR primer.
*
Use Colle De Cologne from Frankford Leather Co., Inc Phone 1-800-245-5555. Glue both surfaces, let it sit for an hour, lightly heat it up and glue. Works great. It must dry for an hour or you've waisted your time.
*
I use drops of superglue aroung the perimeter of the shoe, 10-12 drops. I spread with tongue depressor so entire outside edge is covered. Then glue as usual. You only need to do this with the gum rubber, not the crepe you are adding.
*
Endoskeletal glue. I believe it's a Fillauer product. It is important to follow the directions.
Sent from a special place
*
The trouble with some shoes is that the soles are oil resistant and therefore glue resistant.
*
Early on in my career my tech's would tell me not to give them a shoe with gum rubber soles because the could not get it to bond. I would always tell my pts. that they would need to purchase a shoe with different sole material for that reason. They all were understanding. If you have gotten any responses suggesting otherwise I would very much like to learn about it. Please forward any such suggestions.
*
We use a product Fast Fix Plus from Sure Foot Corporation. This is an acrylic glue that adheres to the rubber soles. It takes a little longer so we use a catalyst to speed the reaction.
*
coat both surfaces with 2 part epoxy---let harden over night. Then use
barge!
*
I would suggest trying the Renia Ortec Glue. I am able to send you a
sample to try it out. I have used it with soling applications and also with
different materials and it has worked well.
Please let me know if you would be interested. All of our products are
available at www.euroorthotics.com
*
Did you hammer the layers after putting them together? With masters glue it is best to kep the glue thin and use it sparingly. But the pieces need to be hammered quite a bit for the glue to work properly.
*
I had a pair around and decided to give this a go. I don't know build up height and model you are using of Doc Marten but sole is usually the same.
Glue will not stick to rubber doesn't work as you found.
Bu I did put some glue on the crepe and sole just to get a little stick to help keep things in place.
What I tried is below and I hope it helps.
1. Grinded the sole flat and used the bandsaw to trim off the heel and grinded smooth..
2. Used some tack nails on a small piece of crepe to have a source to glue to. crepe was an 1/8 or two. I used some 1 1/2 nails for the heal which had a flat head on them. The heel on this pr was high about 1 1/2 inches and I used smaller nails for the sole. doc Marten uses a board last construction so it is difficult to go through the sole but its possible. In talking to the rep years ago I don't remember if its heat bonded or direct inject. Sorry I should know that..
4. This gave me a good surface to work with for gluing and for the build up.
5. On step I did miss was masking off the sole for grinding you'll want to do that because when you grind into the sides is looks a little interesting..and you can't cover it up with anything so be aware.
Granted it was time consuming having to put in nails just in the right place. I worked along the edges to make sure that there was very little separation and a little frustrating at times, but over all it turned out well.
good luck hope this helps
*
Try Shoe Goop. You can get it from SPS but much cheaper from Walmart in the shoe section.
*
When we can't use Masters, we use Colle de Cologne. We get ours from MacPherson Leather in Seattle but most sellers who handle Masters should have that available. Glue both sides, let set, glue again, heat and stick. I've also used super glue with the accelerator spray. But then you have to be really fast, only have one or two seconds after spraying. Apply glue to one side, spray the other and bond.
*
********************
To unsubscribe, send a message to: <Email Address Redacted> with
the words UNSUB OANDP-L in the body of the
message.
If you have a problem unsubscribing,or have other
questions, send e-mail to the moderator
Paul E. Prusakowski,CPO at <Email Address Redacted>
OANDP-L is a forum for the discussion of topics
related to Orthotics and Prosthetics.
Public commercial postings are forbidden. Responses to inquiries
should not be sent to the entire oandp-l list. Professional credentials
or affiliations should be used in all communications.
********************
To unsubscribe, send a message to: <Email Address Redacted> with
the words UNSUB OANDP-L in the body of the
message.
If you have a problem unsubscribing,or have other
questions, send e-mail to the moderator
Paul E. Prusakowski,CPO at <Email Address Redacted>
OANDP-L is a forum for the discussion of topics
related to Orthotics and Prosthetics.
Public commercial postings are forbidden. Responses to inquiries
should not be sent to the entire oandp-l list. Professional credentials
or affiliations should be used in all communications.
Citation
Robert Doubleday, “Re: Results for gluing gum rubber soles,” Digital Resource Foundation for Orthotics and Prosthetics, accessed November 15, 2024, https://library.drfop.org/items/show/230950.
