Responses to: "Do we need more prsothetists in the USA"
Description
Collection
Title:
Responses to: "Do we need more prsothetists in the USA"
Date:
2/14/2014
Text:
Here are the responses to my post about the need for more clinicians. Please keep the responses coming.
First my initial post:
”Are any of you aware of a region in the country where there is a
shortage of prosthetists? I am in New England and here we have many more
than we require. I have been told by friends that there are also too
many in California, Oregon, Washington State, and Florida. Any other
regions?
I have confronted NCOPE on 3 occasions in the past 10 years about their
push to increase graduates and every time get the same response; they
say the need is growing. Our hospitals and doctors tell us they are
greatly reducing the number of amputations through improved disease
control and recent improvements in PVD surgery and treatment.
I ask because I have had to turn away laid off prosthetists and recent
P&O graduates who are in need of work. I have also watched collegues
leave the field as no work was available. When was the last time you saw
an add for a job for a prosthetist in your region?
Please respond to all if you can. We need to have this discussion in our
field in an open manner, I believe. I may be wrong, but I think we need
to shutter some schools and reduce the number of prosthetics grads. At a
minimum we need to educate grads from the regions where there might be
shortages, if there are any such regions.”
David Loney, CP
WillowBrook P&O
Responses. Edits are obvious:
1. In my opinion there is not a shortage. I feel the push for more schools and graduates is in part the desire by large corporations to have an abundance of prosthetists looking for jobs, which will in turn keep salaries down and improve their bottom line. I always thought it was interesting the partnership that Hanger had with the Newington Certificate Program.
That being said, if every state would require liscensure and not grandfather in prosthetists with no more than a high school education and some on the job training, then there may become more of a shortage.
Without state licensure, or until all private insurance companies as well as medicare start credentialing each individual prosthetist and checking for certifications and educational qualifications, there will continue to be an abundance of self proclaimed prosthetists and orthotists taking jobs from educated prosthetists and orthotists in the US.
2.The schools must also inform their students not to expect 75K and up to start after residency.
My practice is on xxxxxxxxxx and xxxxxxx College is just across the Bay. Number of student apps for O and P are declining.
When ever I'm asked about our profession as a career, I try to steer them in a new direction to include my Children. All four wanted to follow in my footsteps
But with much persuasion different paths were taken and are now, thru me, seeing all the battles I encounter just to receive payment and are glad they did choose different careers.
Not only is the field flooded, it is flooded with folks main interest in making a lot of money and am not sure there is a real passion for it.
If it weren't for MY passion, I would have closed or sold my practice long ago.
I here Alaska is nice this time of year!
3. Good point!
4. It all comes down to $ Do you think the schools, NCOPE, ABC, BOC, AAOP & AOPA want less members/graduates/residents? The bigger issue here is the difficulty smaller shops are having competing with the big ones due to the dire situation with decreasing reimbursements, RAC Audits and increasing accts. payables. I'm seeing Mom & Pops selling to the big boys or closing their doors recently. I'm in the NY metro area. Yes there are too many P&O shops competing for the available work. Just wait until competitive bidding comes here.
5. I'm getting at least 1-4 requests for internships/residencies every month. There's no way O&P providers can fill all these slots.
6. Very good point, we see the journals and classifieds on O-P. Looks like the east and Midwest there's a need. The west is changing from independents to franchisees. With latest surveys saying that drs and Hosp are delivering more because of the revenue stream needed to off set decreased $$ for surgery. More masters and PhDs maybe needed for teaching. But not daily practioneers, follow the 1 practitioner an assistants like the corporate companies. The golden age of O and P technology
Is here, but for who?
7. I can tell you there is a shortage of orthotists across Canada. I have been looking for over a year and there is no one qualified to work - and there are several very high profile positions desperate to be filled. Perhaps the problem is that too many people are being counselled or are focussed on going into prosthetics when they should be considering orthotics.
I had a posting for months on the CAPO website -and got 2 hits, one from Pakistan and one from India. Neither were able to start seeing patients in Canada due to our regulations, but they were both very qualified.
When I first became interested in the field I thought I wanted to be a prosthetist - once educated in orthotics I realized I was much better suited to O. One problem is that everyone knows what a prosthesis is but no one knows what an orthosis is. Informing the students of the need is the best way to go.
8. Dear colleague,
There are WAY to many practitioners out there and the schools keep pumping out graduates. I had this discussion with xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx@ Northwestern over 10 years ago and I asked hxx if x was aware of what they were doing to the field. The reply I received went something like this...The insurance companies tell us we need more practitioners and we have to increase the education level so they will pay us more. Really?! (Hasn't happened has it, Homer) I replied that the schools require less mechanical ability and how does that transfer into a better practitioner? I got no reply. I mentioned that it was good for xxx job and the bottom line of Northwestern but that it is killing us that really do practice our craft and that we will all be working for $10.00/hr soon. I still got no reply. I guess it keeps xxx fat and happy while the people in the trenches put up with newbies that do not have barely the skills they need. The killing of a proud profession if you ask me.
I challenge you to go out and try to find a new job/work these days. Salaries are no where near what the Academy website states.
The large practices and the corporations love it. They keep people afraid for their jobs no matter if they are great at what they do or not and keep the wages and benefits low. I had an owner that would keep a stack of resumes handy and point to them when he felt the workers were getting out of line.
The killing of a once proud profession.
9. I attended the AOPA meeting this week in New Orleans. According the the guest speaker, Brian Gustin, he statest there is an increase in amputations due to our increasing obesity and diabetes rate. However, he states there are more and more prosthetists. He says there are too many prosthetist and not enough amputees (if your looking at it from an income/financial view). Let me know if you would like the contact info for Brian. He has all the statistics.
10. I have to agree with you, In Denver and the state of Colorado as a whole, we have way to many CPOs.
11. I agree completely. Look at dentistry. Job reimbursement and placement is excellent. It's because they limit how many people enter their profession each year. Our profession is, if you pay the money your in. We need to reduce the people entering O & P and increase the quality.
12. think you are right and have been thinking the same thing myself. I come from one of the school areas (xxxxxxxxxxxxx) and know of a number of graduates who are now working in other fields not O&P. I have even posted questions asking how many leave the field after completing schooling and not finding jobs. It seems a simple question but with no answer forthcoming.
13. In my opinion, Minnesota has a surplus of Prosthetists!
14. If you know of any talented and well qualified prosthetists in New England please have them forward to me their resume's. We are in desperate need of great (not just good)practitioners!
Ed Kaufman
Yale Surgical Company
15. Too many in North Carolina too
16. I would think the laws of supply and demand speak for themselves. When
prices go down, demand tells us that there are to many supplying the same
products and services. Isn't that what's happening now, prices and demand is
dropping sue to excessive supply?
17. As a student investing 2 years and considerable dollars pursuing a Masters Degree in O&P, I would be very interested in any responses you receive. We are well assured that demographics are trending such that it is possible that demand for our services will be considerable. Of course, the schools have obvious financial incentive to make that claim. It would be nice to hear what the industry says.
18. Good post. They are probably needed in the rest of the world outside of
the US. Now masters graduates will have a hard time getting paid or a
job commensurate with their master's degree
First my initial post:
”Are any of you aware of a region in the country where there is a
shortage of prosthetists? I am in New England and here we have many more
than we require. I have been told by friends that there are also too
many in California, Oregon, Washington State, and Florida. Any other
regions?
I have confronted NCOPE on 3 occasions in the past 10 years about their
push to increase graduates and every time get the same response; they
say the need is growing. Our hospitals and doctors tell us they are
greatly reducing the number of amputations through improved disease
control and recent improvements in PVD surgery and treatment.
I ask because I have had to turn away laid off prosthetists and recent
P&O graduates who are in need of work. I have also watched collegues
leave the field as no work was available. When was the last time you saw
an add for a job for a prosthetist in your region?
Please respond to all if you can. We need to have this discussion in our
field in an open manner, I believe. I may be wrong, but I think we need
to shutter some schools and reduce the number of prosthetics grads. At a
minimum we need to educate grads from the regions where there might be
shortages, if there are any such regions.”
David Loney, CP
WillowBrook P&O
Responses. Edits are obvious:
1. In my opinion there is not a shortage. I feel the push for more schools and graduates is in part the desire by large corporations to have an abundance of prosthetists looking for jobs, which will in turn keep salaries down and improve their bottom line. I always thought it was interesting the partnership that Hanger had with the Newington Certificate Program.
That being said, if every state would require liscensure and not grandfather in prosthetists with no more than a high school education and some on the job training, then there may become more of a shortage.
Without state licensure, or until all private insurance companies as well as medicare start credentialing each individual prosthetist and checking for certifications and educational qualifications, there will continue to be an abundance of self proclaimed prosthetists and orthotists taking jobs from educated prosthetists and orthotists in the US.
2.The schools must also inform their students not to expect 75K and up to start after residency.
My practice is on xxxxxxxxxx and xxxxxxx College is just across the Bay. Number of student apps for O and P are declining.
When ever I'm asked about our profession as a career, I try to steer them in a new direction to include my Children. All four wanted to follow in my footsteps
But with much persuasion different paths were taken and are now, thru me, seeing all the battles I encounter just to receive payment and are glad they did choose different careers.
Not only is the field flooded, it is flooded with folks main interest in making a lot of money and am not sure there is a real passion for it.
If it weren't for MY passion, I would have closed or sold my practice long ago.
I here Alaska is nice this time of year!
3. Good point!
4. It all comes down to $ Do you think the schools, NCOPE, ABC, BOC, AAOP & AOPA want less members/graduates/residents? The bigger issue here is the difficulty smaller shops are having competing with the big ones due to the dire situation with decreasing reimbursements, RAC Audits and increasing accts. payables. I'm seeing Mom & Pops selling to the big boys or closing their doors recently. I'm in the NY metro area. Yes there are too many P&O shops competing for the available work. Just wait until competitive bidding comes here.
5. I'm getting at least 1-4 requests for internships/residencies every month. There's no way O&P providers can fill all these slots.
6. Very good point, we see the journals and classifieds on O-P. Looks like the east and Midwest there's a need. The west is changing from independents to franchisees. With latest surveys saying that drs and Hosp are delivering more because of the revenue stream needed to off set decreased $$ for surgery. More masters and PhDs maybe needed for teaching. But not daily practioneers, follow the 1 practitioner an assistants like the corporate companies. The golden age of O and P technology
Is here, but for who?
7. I can tell you there is a shortage of orthotists across Canada. I have been looking for over a year and there is no one qualified to work - and there are several very high profile positions desperate to be filled. Perhaps the problem is that too many people are being counselled or are focussed on going into prosthetics when they should be considering orthotics.
I had a posting for months on the CAPO website -and got 2 hits, one from Pakistan and one from India. Neither were able to start seeing patients in Canada due to our regulations, but they were both very qualified.
When I first became interested in the field I thought I wanted to be a prosthetist - once educated in orthotics I realized I was much better suited to O. One problem is that everyone knows what a prosthesis is but no one knows what an orthosis is. Informing the students of the need is the best way to go.
8. Dear colleague,
There are WAY to many practitioners out there and the schools keep pumping out graduates. I had this discussion with xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx@ Northwestern over 10 years ago and I asked hxx if x was aware of what they were doing to the field. The reply I received went something like this...The insurance companies tell us we need more practitioners and we have to increase the education level so they will pay us more. Really?! (Hasn't happened has it, Homer) I replied that the schools require less mechanical ability and how does that transfer into a better practitioner? I got no reply. I mentioned that it was good for xxx job and the bottom line of Northwestern but that it is killing us that really do practice our craft and that we will all be working for $10.00/hr soon. I still got no reply. I guess it keeps xxx fat and happy while the people in the trenches put up with newbies that do not have barely the skills they need. The killing of a proud profession if you ask me.
I challenge you to go out and try to find a new job/work these days. Salaries are no where near what the Academy website states.
The large practices and the corporations love it. They keep people afraid for their jobs no matter if they are great at what they do or not and keep the wages and benefits low. I had an owner that would keep a stack of resumes handy and point to them when he felt the workers were getting out of line.
The killing of a once proud profession.
9. I attended the AOPA meeting this week in New Orleans. According the the guest speaker, Brian Gustin, he statest there is an increase in amputations due to our increasing obesity and diabetes rate. However, he states there are more and more prosthetists. He says there are too many prosthetist and not enough amputees (if your looking at it from an income/financial view). Let me know if you would like the contact info for Brian. He has all the statistics.
10. I have to agree with you, In Denver and the state of Colorado as a whole, we have way to many CPOs.
11. I agree completely. Look at dentistry. Job reimbursement and placement is excellent. It's because they limit how many people enter their profession each year. Our profession is, if you pay the money your in. We need to reduce the people entering O & P and increase the quality.
12. think you are right and have been thinking the same thing myself. I come from one of the school areas (xxxxxxxxxxxxx) and know of a number of graduates who are now working in other fields not O&P. I have even posted questions asking how many leave the field after completing schooling and not finding jobs. It seems a simple question but with no answer forthcoming.
13. In my opinion, Minnesota has a surplus of Prosthetists!
14. If you know of any talented and well qualified prosthetists in New England please have them forward to me their resume's. We are in desperate need of great (not just good)practitioners!
Ed Kaufman
Yale Surgical Company
15. Too many in North Carolina too
16. I would think the laws of supply and demand speak for themselves. When
prices go down, demand tells us that there are to many supplying the same
products and services. Isn't that what's happening now, prices and demand is
dropping sue to excessive supply?
17. As a student investing 2 years and considerable dollars pursuing a Masters Degree in O&P, I would be very interested in any responses you receive. We are well assured that demographics are trending such that it is possible that demand for our services will be considerable. Of course, the schools have obvious financial incentive to make that claim. It would be nice to hear what the industry says.
18. Good post. They are probably needed in the rest of the world outside of
the US. Now masters graduates will have a hard time getting paid or a
job commensurate with their master's degree
Citation
“Responses to: "Do we need more prsothetists in the USA",” Digital Resource Foundation for Orthotics and Prosthetics, accessed November 1, 2024, https://library.drfop.org/items/show/236087.
