VA solicitation responses
Eric Eisenberg
Description
Collection
Title:
VA solicitation responses
Creator:
Eric Eisenberg
Date:
5/15/2012
Text:
Below are the responses I received its quite lengthy: I own and operate a O and P company in Southern California. What you are writing is true, all true. Through their behavior, the VA wants to keep all prosthetics in house. We have had the very same experience, over several years, and there is no winning the battle. Please keep my name and email confidential Unethical behaviour. Make a lot of noise and complain loudly to the VA. Also is the prosthetist in breach of the code of ethics of P&O association/acadamy? If so can you make a complaint to them for unethical behaviour? that may make other P&Os at the VA think twice before such behaviour.
That's my 2cents and I would like to remain annonomous.
They are keeping all patients in house and any difficult patients they decline coverage as the pat. Is a non candidate its more than a little troubling My response won't help you.
Power corrupts.
Who is John Galt?
Get ready for more of this as the Feds take over health care.
Thank you for your posting.
I am a BE that has been getting my prosthesis paid for by the VA since 1981 by the same company - the VA here currently does not have the facilities necessary , although they are renovating to be able to - I'm afraid that they will also do the same (have my arm made there). They currently don't have qualified Prosthetists to do this, but knowing the VA (I have been a patient at this facility since 1969), it would be scary for me to go there. I only live a few miles from the hospital, but my current Prosthetist knows my needs. I am afraid to have to start over.
Thank you for the posting - local companies have seen an increase in business from this VA while they are renovating. I'm thinking that they are trying to upgrade to the quality of care that the new amputees received from the DOD. Good luck for that - the VA does not have the same funding as the DOD and the new amputees are finding that out.
Eric, you read the article about VA fraud and cost recovery in Almanac, I believe? And VA research showing that average BK costs $2600 VA, and $11 000 outside clinic? Of course they do and will.
Otherwise, he's a VA coverage Pt, right? Hard to call this solicitation. CPO sure made it cheaper for VA, of course. I understand and share your frustration regarding the loss of your ongoing
client, espeically when your preprartory socket was duplicated.
Unfortuneately, it makes sense that the VA will push for in-house service
because their overhead is disbursed thoughtout the VA system and therefore,
their apparent overhead is lower than private practice. I think it may well
be fancy bookkeeping, but the VA well show that they indeed can provide O&P
setrvices at a lower rate. I hope your clinic is not overly dependent on VA
referrals and/or income. In any event, I wish you the best. You are the target. The V A will have it's way.
I forwarded your post to the AOPA Executive Committee for comments because your situation is a perfect example of what is happening in local markets with the VA.
AOPA has had a number of meetings/interactions with the VA regarding the direction the VA is heading. Actually one of AOPA's Board Members, Mike Oros from Sheck and Siress in Chicago, is testifying in congress this week regarding the O & P issues and the VA. We lobbied for the VA bill of rights in DC last month which specifically addresses the issue of access to private practices like ours for VA patients. But the fact is when faced with the tactics you faced here, when the VA is directly competing with their own contractors it gets to be a hairy situation.
I will let you know what I hear back... I don't have the answer for you. It is very frustrating.
What is the SC status of the patient and if he is SC is it for the loss of the leg?
I do not speak for the VA so please consider this off the record.
I will say that it is much faster and easier to make a leg in house as well as it does save the tax payer a lot of money. I say this after 15 years in private practice and working for a company that made legs through the VA and voluntarily taking a pay cut to come work for the VA. The company I left was very disappointed at my move to the VA on a side note.
I am looking into this myself for my own knowledge but I was always under the impression that you had to be SC for the loss of the leg to go on the outside except if in-house is not available (no lab).
Policy may also be different from area to area. If you want, I can let you know what I find out from my chief of the service
No its not solicitation, its down right theft.
Take it from someone who has dealt with them for 35 yrs.
The patient has the right to go where they want.
Sad thing is the patient has to be tuff and fight for their rights,you cant do it for them.
Then they will hit you with the BS the patient is not service connected,and
must come in for treatment ,and not permitted to go to outside vendors.
The x2 knee is more BS.They pull the same crap in California with C-type knees.
Sure we will provide the knee you provide the socket.
Try to make a profit on that.
Years ago it was against the law for the VA to even make anything other than a temp
prosthesis for a vet,due to conflict of interest.
Now we are not even permitted to attend amputee clinics without a direct invitation .
I just love their take it or leave it attitude...
The VA is totally wrong with this treatment,and our wonderful trade association
has done nothing to help us in this matter.
I feel your Pain
Eric, this should also be brought to the attention of your State Licensing Board , State Assoic., and your
Congressman. Although Rep. Mike Rogers is not your Congressman he is active with Veteran's issues.
Hi Eric,
This is now rampant in the VA system. I am a local VA provider and am regularly hearing the same story. We even had a local prosthetist sue, and rumor has it he won, because the VA said only they can order the X2. Otto Bock is in bed with the VA on this componentry. Our VA has hired 3 orthotists and another CPO. I was doing over half a million dollars a year with the VA in orthotics and another few hundred K in prosthetics. I am now doing about 50 K in orthotics and very little in prosthetics. They actively recruit in their clinics, which we are not allowed to attend. I had to lay off two people. They are now the competition. You might want to get a lawyer, I did. Feel free to call. This is only the tip of the iceberg for me, they truly have screwed me and my company over. I am a veteran and my business, of course, is veteran owned. It means nothing to them
Just complain to the top of the VA in DC. One letter ought to do it, or the GAO.
Hi Eric. I know this is something a lot of the VA's are doing more & more. I know it's not helpful but yes, it IS THE VET's choice to go where they want, whether it's a contracted provider or not. I heard there is a bill being presented in the senate to make it mandatory to have the VET's rights posted in all VA's stating that exact thing; that the Vet has the right to choose. It's just sad that that has to be made into a law. I'm not sure who you can talk to. Maybe the patient advocate that they have there?
Please visit NAAOP.org and look at the bill that we are promoting H.R. 805.
It clearly addresses this issue.
Thanks for making this information public- we need more awareness
surrounding this issue.
That's my 2cents and I would like to remain annonomous.
They are keeping all patients in house and any difficult patients they decline coverage as the pat. Is a non candidate its more than a little troubling My response won't help you.
Power corrupts.
Who is John Galt?
Get ready for more of this as the Feds take over health care.
Thank you for your posting.
I am a BE that has been getting my prosthesis paid for by the VA since 1981 by the same company - the VA here currently does not have the facilities necessary , although they are renovating to be able to - I'm afraid that they will also do the same (have my arm made there). They currently don't have qualified Prosthetists to do this, but knowing the VA (I have been a patient at this facility since 1969), it would be scary for me to go there. I only live a few miles from the hospital, but my current Prosthetist knows my needs. I am afraid to have to start over.
Thank you for the posting - local companies have seen an increase in business from this VA while they are renovating. I'm thinking that they are trying to upgrade to the quality of care that the new amputees received from the DOD. Good luck for that - the VA does not have the same funding as the DOD and the new amputees are finding that out.
Eric, you read the article about VA fraud and cost recovery in Almanac, I believe? And VA research showing that average BK costs $2600 VA, and $11 000 outside clinic? Of course they do and will.
Otherwise, he's a VA coverage Pt, right? Hard to call this solicitation. CPO sure made it cheaper for VA, of course. I understand and share your frustration regarding the loss of your ongoing
client, espeically when your preprartory socket was duplicated.
Unfortuneately, it makes sense that the VA will push for in-house service
because their overhead is disbursed thoughtout the VA system and therefore,
their apparent overhead is lower than private practice. I think it may well
be fancy bookkeeping, but the VA well show that they indeed can provide O&P
setrvices at a lower rate. I hope your clinic is not overly dependent on VA
referrals and/or income. In any event, I wish you the best. You are the target. The V A will have it's way.
I forwarded your post to the AOPA Executive Committee for comments because your situation is a perfect example of what is happening in local markets with the VA.
AOPA has had a number of meetings/interactions with the VA regarding the direction the VA is heading. Actually one of AOPA's Board Members, Mike Oros from Sheck and Siress in Chicago, is testifying in congress this week regarding the O & P issues and the VA. We lobbied for the VA bill of rights in DC last month which specifically addresses the issue of access to private practices like ours for VA patients. But the fact is when faced with the tactics you faced here, when the VA is directly competing with their own contractors it gets to be a hairy situation.
I will let you know what I hear back... I don't have the answer for you. It is very frustrating.
What is the SC status of the patient and if he is SC is it for the loss of the leg?
I do not speak for the VA so please consider this off the record.
I will say that it is much faster and easier to make a leg in house as well as it does save the tax payer a lot of money. I say this after 15 years in private practice and working for a company that made legs through the VA and voluntarily taking a pay cut to come work for the VA. The company I left was very disappointed at my move to the VA on a side note.
I am looking into this myself for my own knowledge but I was always under the impression that you had to be SC for the loss of the leg to go on the outside except if in-house is not available (no lab).
Policy may also be different from area to area. If you want, I can let you know what I find out from my chief of the service
No its not solicitation, its down right theft.
Take it from someone who has dealt with them for 35 yrs.
The patient has the right to go where they want.
Sad thing is the patient has to be tuff and fight for their rights,you cant do it for them.
Then they will hit you with the BS the patient is not service connected,and
must come in for treatment ,and not permitted to go to outside vendors.
The x2 knee is more BS.They pull the same crap in California with C-type knees.
Sure we will provide the knee you provide the socket.
Try to make a profit on that.
Years ago it was against the law for the VA to even make anything other than a temp
prosthesis for a vet,due to conflict of interest.
Now we are not even permitted to attend amputee clinics without a direct invitation .
I just love their take it or leave it attitude...
The VA is totally wrong with this treatment,and our wonderful trade association
has done nothing to help us in this matter.
I feel your Pain
Eric, this should also be brought to the attention of your State Licensing Board , State Assoic., and your
Congressman. Although Rep. Mike Rogers is not your Congressman he is active with Veteran's issues.
Hi Eric,
This is now rampant in the VA system. I am a local VA provider and am regularly hearing the same story. We even had a local prosthetist sue, and rumor has it he won, because the VA said only they can order the X2. Otto Bock is in bed with the VA on this componentry. Our VA has hired 3 orthotists and another CPO. I was doing over half a million dollars a year with the VA in orthotics and another few hundred K in prosthetics. I am now doing about 50 K in orthotics and very little in prosthetics. They actively recruit in their clinics, which we are not allowed to attend. I had to lay off two people. They are now the competition. You might want to get a lawyer, I did. Feel free to call. This is only the tip of the iceberg for me, they truly have screwed me and my company over. I am a veteran and my business, of course, is veteran owned. It means nothing to them
Just complain to the top of the VA in DC. One letter ought to do it, or the GAO.
Hi Eric. I know this is something a lot of the VA's are doing more & more. I know it's not helpful but yes, it IS THE VET's choice to go where they want, whether it's a contracted provider or not. I heard there is a bill being presented in the senate to make it mandatory to have the VET's rights posted in all VA's stating that exact thing; that the Vet has the right to choose. It's just sad that that has to be made into a law. I'm not sure who you can talk to. Maybe the patient advocate that they have there?
Please visit NAAOP.org and look at the bill that we are promoting H.R. 805.
It clearly addresses this issue.
Thanks for making this information public- we need more awareness
surrounding this issue.
Citation
Eric Eisenberg, “VA solicitation responses,” Digital Resource Foundation for Orthotics and Prosthetics, accessed November 2, 2024, https://library.drfop.org/items/show/233694.
