List Replies- Bilateral swimmer
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Collection
Title:
List Replies- Bilateral swimmer
Text:
Original Question-
have been asked by a friend who is a bilateral TT (BK) amputee to post the
following questions:
Are there any other bilateral amputees out there doing triathlons?
Any ideas on building swim legs with articulating ankles for swimming and
walking out of water to bike transition area.
Should the legs be buoyant?
Foot recommendation for the swim legs? (fins are not permitted)
.
Replies--
Rampro makes a swim ankle that would do the trick, and recommends a Kingsley
Wayfarer to be used in conjunction.
Jim Young, CP FAAOP
I do not have any triathletes , I do however have several swimers. According
to my swimmers who use the Active ankle, the sockets should have a neutral
bouancy to keep them from floating or sinking to help maintain a prone
position in the water. Higher energy levels will be expended if the sockets
are heavier than water because they will tend to sink and vica versa, if
they
are too bouant you struggle with the down ward stroke trying to raise the
limb to the surface. If the socket and components sink, you can add white
expanded polystyrene in shaped amounts or other closed cell foam. Aliplast
works well if wraped and taped around the pylon. Expanded polystyrene offers
70 lbs of bouant lift per cubic foot. I do not know what lift per cubic foot
of aliplast offers. The aliplast is easier to temporarily apply than
polystyrene. Most glues that are waterproof and resigns will disolve the
white foam. Hope this helps
D.M.Baraly CP
I am a bilateral TT who swam competitively for 16 years,
including 3 Paralympic Games. I also raced open water for
several years. I used short stubbies with bock lite liners
that I wore with no socks to get from the water up the
beach. I have enough anatomic contour that in combination
with the water would create enough suspension to cover the
short distances up and down the beach. I always asked to
be allowed to start in the water so I did not need to deal
with removing the stubbies after the race started. Because
of the way the human foot moves during a flutter kick no
prosthetic foot will provide any real propulsion.
Your friend will find two big problems with swimming while
wearing a prosthesis. They add substantial drag, and the
buoyancy can be a real problem. The ideal prosthesis would
be just very slightly positively buoyant. If it floats
like a cork, it will put a lot of strain on his back when
he has to lift his head to sight his lines for navigation,
or if he swims with a high head typical of most
triathletes. If the prosthesis sinks it will pull his body
down and create more drag. Neutral buoyancy is when an
object floats at the same level it is placed at and does
not naturally rise or sink in the water.
Drag can come from any gapping between the body and trim
line. If he's like most triathletes and wears a wetsuit,
wearing the wet suit down over the trimlines will reduce
the drag problem.
Unless he is planning on biking in the same prostheses that
he swims in, I would recommend stubbies. Keep them as
short as possible. A 3s system can work just fine, and he
can wear the stubbies during the swim, or just the liners
and an event volunteer can meet him at the shoreline with
the stubbies. If he wants to bike in the same legs... that
is a much more difficult problem.
Jason Wening
RamPro makes the Ativankel & swimankle, articulating ankles out of
polymer very good quality. Thermo-plastic sockets with external sleeve
suspension, possibly a geriatric carbon foot for light weight, naturally
water proof more or less. A Safe Foot is water proof. I have sent you a
link. <URL Redacted> check out their link button for
more good ideas.
RS Marchisio RTP
Hello Jack;
Sorry, I don't know of any articulating (swim) ankles out there that would
even remotely withstand the stresses of a full triathalon race, running,
etc. They just won't stand up to the pounding over the long term. Your
best option would probably be to use Ferrier couplers and have a dedicated
set of swim feet with L.A. ankles, then switch over to the cycling/running
feet (without the L.A. ankles) in the transition area. Extra cost, for
sure, but very little time lost and much better results overall.
Cheers,
Geoff Hall, C.P. ( c )
Victoria, BC
I have been asked by a friend who is a bilateral TT (BK) amputee to
post the
following questions:
Are there any other bilateral amputees out there doing triathlons? YES.
HAVE HIM JOIN (CAF)
Any ideas on building swim legs with articulating ankles for swimming
and
walking out of water to bike transition area. I HAVE SEEN THIS ON BI-LAT
AK'S AND SOME WEAR FINS. THE MOST SUCCESSFUL DO NOT WEAR THEIR
PROSTHETICS IN THE WATER. A GOOD SWIM COACH WILL TRAIN HIM TO USE HIS
STUMPS AS TOOLS IN THE WATER. MOST RACE DIRECTORS WILL LET AMPUTEES
STAGE A CHAIR AT THE WATER EXIT WITH SOME LEGS THERE WAITING ALONG
WITH A TOWEL. THEN THEY CAN AMBULATE INTO THE TRANSITION AREA AND PUT ON
THE LEGS FOR THE BIKE
Should the legs be buoyant? AS MUCH AS THEY CAN BE - WEIGHT IN THE WATER
GETS IN THE WAY. I'LL LET THE BIG BOYS TAKE THIS ONE
Foot recommendation for the swim legs? (fins are not permitted)
Thanks in advance.
Replies will be compiled and reposted.
HAVE YOUR PATIENT CONTACT VIRGINIA TINLEY AT CAF SO HE OR SHE CAN GET IN
TOUCH WITH OTHER AMPUTEE TRIATHLETES LIKE RUDY, AJ ALEONG AND OTHERS WHO
CAN PROVIDE MORE Expert expertise.
I'm sure you will get suggestions to look into the multiposition ankle units
for swimming. Another thought, the rules do not allow fins but beyond that
they do not define the prostheses themselves. It would be possible to
fabricate the shank of the prostheses to enhance their hydrodynamics. This could
consist of attempting to maximize their surface profile for kicking or to
minimize the surface area for drag. I would think that the reduced drag would be
more likely to be successful and less likely to draw protest from the
competition. Swimming is largely arm strength anyway. If the a\individual is
changing legs for each phase of the event then these modifications could get
pretty extreme. If the same prostheses are used in all three phases then the
design must be more of a compromise but could still offer a benefit.
As to buoyancy neutral is usually recommended. It's not good to float head
down nor to have your prosthesis sink to the bottom of the lake if you loose
suspension.
Ted A. Trower C.P.O.
Try RAMPRO on the internet. They make a great swim leg, or have excellent
fabrication instruction for in-house. They also have the Active-Ankle for
swimming and transition.
yes to all of your questions,
have a look at this address and have your pt right a letter to the
organization, they will help this person out.
<URL Redacted>
best wish to friends triathlon, any other question feel free to email or
call,
Hi Jack:
There is one bilat tt triathlete here in Brazil. You can check his site at
_www.paue.com.br_ ( <URL Redacted>) Even being in Portuguese you can
check the pictures. I know his prosthesis so if you need any hint, just let
me know. I can also try to put him in touch with your friend if he wants so!
Thanks for all your help replies posted and forwarded to Athlete
Jack Richmond
Southeastern Area Sales Manager
The Fillauer Companies
800-251-6398
have been asked by a friend who is a bilateral TT (BK) amputee to post the
following questions:
Are there any other bilateral amputees out there doing triathlons?
Any ideas on building swim legs with articulating ankles for swimming and
walking out of water to bike transition area.
Should the legs be buoyant?
Foot recommendation for the swim legs? (fins are not permitted)
.
Replies--
Rampro makes a swim ankle that would do the trick, and recommends a Kingsley
Wayfarer to be used in conjunction.
Jim Young, CP FAAOP
I do not have any triathletes , I do however have several swimers. According
to my swimmers who use the Active ankle, the sockets should have a neutral
bouancy to keep them from floating or sinking to help maintain a prone
position in the water. Higher energy levels will be expended if the sockets
are heavier than water because they will tend to sink and vica versa, if
they
are too bouant you struggle with the down ward stroke trying to raise the
limb to the surface. If the socket and components sink, you can add white
expanded polystyrene in shaped amounts or other closed cell foam. Aliplast
works well if wraped and taped around the pylon. Expanded polystyrene offers
70 lbs of bouant lift per cubic foot. I do not know what lift per cubic foot
of aliplast offers. The aliplast is easier to temporarily apply than
polystyrene. Most glues that are waterproof and resigns will disolve the
white foam. Hope this helps
D.M.Baraly CP
I am a bilateral TT who swam competitively for 16 years,
including 3 Paralympic Games. I also raced open water for
several years. I used short stubbies with bock lite liners
that I wore with no socks to get from the water up the
beach. I have enough anatomic contour that in combination
with the water would create enough suspension to cover the
short distances up and down the beach. I always asked to
be allowed to start in the water so I did not need to deal
with removing the stubbies after the race started. Because
of the way the human foot moves during a flutter kick no
prosthetic foot will provide any real propulsion.
Your friend will find two big problems with swimming while
wearing a prosthesis. They add substantial drag, and the
buoyancy can be a real problem. The ideal prosthesis would
be just very slightly positively buoyant. If it floats
like a cork, it will put a lot of strain on his back when
he has to lift his head to sight his lines for navigation,
or if he swims with a high head typical of most
triathletes. If the prosthesis sinks it will pull his body
down and create more drag. Neutral buoyancy is when an
object floats at the same level it is placed at and does
not naturally rise or sink in the water.
Drag can come from any gapping between the body and trim
line. If he's like most triathletes and wears a wetsuit,
wearing the wet suit down over the trimlines will reduce
the drag problem.
Unless he is planning on biking in the same prostheses that
he swims in, I would recommend stubbies. Keep them as
short as possible. A 3s system can work just fine, and he
can wear the stubbies during the swim, or just the liners
and an event volunteer can meet him at the shoreline with
the stubbies. If he wants to bike in the same legs... that
is a much more difficult problem.
Jason Wening
RamPro makes the Ativankel & swimankle, articulating ankles out of
polymer very good quality. Thermo-plastic sockets with external sleeve
suspension, possibly a geriatric carbon foot for light weight, naturally
water proof more or less. A Safe Foot is water proof. I have sent you a
link. <URL Redacted> check out their link button for
more good ideas.
RS Marchisio RTP
Hello Jack;
Sorry, I don't know of any articulating (swim) ankles out there that would
even remotely withstand the stresses of a full triathalon race, running,
etc. They just won't stand up to the pounding over the long term. Your
best option would probably be to use Ferrier couplers and have a dedicated
set of swim feet with L.A. ankles, then switch over to the cycling/running
feet (without the L.A. ankles) in the transition area. Extra cost, for
sure, but very little time lost and much better results overall.
Cheers,
Geoff Hall, C.P. ( c )
Victoria, BC
I have been asked by a friend who is a bilateral TT (BK) amputee to
post the
following questions:
Are there any other bilateral amputees out there doing triathlons? YES.
HAVE HIM JOIN (CAF)
Any ideas on building swim legs with articulating ankles for swimming
and
walking out of water to bike transition area. I HAVE SEEN THIS ON BI-LAT
AK'S AND SOME WEAR FINS. THE MOST SUCCESSFUL DO NOT WEAR THEIR
PROSTHETICS IN THE WATER. A GOOD SWIM COACH WILL TRAIN HIM TO USE HIS
STUMPS AS TOOLS IN THE WATER. MOST RACE DIRECTORS WILL LET AMPUTEES
STAGE A CHAIR AT THE WATER EXIT WITH SOME LEGS THERE WAITING ALONG
WITH A TOWEL. THEN THEY CAN AMBULATE INTO THE TRANSITION AREA AND PUT ON
THE LEGS FOR THE BIKE
Should the legs be buoyant? AS MUCH AS THEY CAN BE - WEIGHT IN THE WATER
GETS IN THE WAY. I'LL LET THE BIG BOYS TAKE THIS ONE
Foot recommendation for the swim legs? (fins are not permitted)
Thanks in advance.
Replies will be compiled and reposted.
HAVE YOUR PATIENT CONTACT VIRGINIA TINLEY AT CAF SO HE OR SHE CAN GET IN
TOUCH WITH OTHER AMPUTEE TRIATHLETES LIKE RUDY, AJ ALEONG AND OTHERS WHO
CAN PROVIDE MORE Expert expertise.
I'm sure you will get suggestions to look into the multiposition ankle units
for swimming. Another thought, the rules do not allow fins but beyond that
they do not define the prostheses themselves. It would be possible to
fabricate the shank of the prostheses to enhance their hydrodynamics. This could
consist of attempting to maximize their surface profile for kicking or to
minimize the surface area for drag. I would think that the reduced drag would be
more likely to be successful and less likely to draw protest from the
competition. Swimming is largely arm strength anyway. If the a\individual is
changing legs for each phase of the event then these modifications could get
pretty extreme. If the same prostheses are used in all three phases then the
design must be more of a compromise but could still offer a benefit.
As to buoyancy neutral is usually recommended. It's not good to float head
down nor to have your prosthesis sink to the bottom of the lake if you loose
suspension.
Ted A. Trower C.P.O.
Try RAMPRO on the internet. They make a great swim leg, or have excellent
fabrication instruction for in-house. They also have the Active-Ankle for
swimming and transition.
yes to all of your questions,
have a look at this address and have your pt right a letter to the
organization, they will help this person out.
<URL Redacted>
best wish to friends triathlon, any other question feel free to email or
call,
Hi Jack:
There is one bilat tt triathlete here in Brazil. You can check his site at
_www.paue.com.br_ ( <URL Redacted>) Even being in Portuguese you can
check the pictures. I know his prosthesis so if you need any hint, just let
me know. I can also try to put him in touch with your friend if he wants so!
Thanks for all your help replies posted and forwarded to Athlete
Jack Richmond
Southeastern Area Sales Manager
The Fillauer Companies
800-251-6398
Citation
“List Replies- Bilateral swimmer,” Digital Resource Foundation for Orthotics and Prosthetics, accessed November 1, 2024, https://library.drfop.org/items/show/226504.
