Rhetorical question...Responses
Kevin Matthews
Description
Collection
Title:
Rhetorical question...Responses
Creator:
Kevin Matthews
Date:
3/9/2006
Text:
Hello all:
Wow, what a response! My original question follows, but I would like to thank those who responded. Some intellectuals in the group. Names I know and have come to respect. It was late when I wrote my original post, and later I remembered one of my favorite terms, I was just blanking, not that I haven't written pops a thousand times. I like extension moment after heel strike. Responses follow:
By the way, Mr. Prusakowsky requested we include names with responses so we would understand the background of the respondee, and I agree. There are a lot of names we know and respect and it adds credence (clearwater revival) to responses. Thank you for this list Paul.
Original Q:
I was writing patient notes this evening for a patient that pops his knee into extension after heel strike and before mid-stance. This is pretty typical in patients with weakness around the knee, as you all know and I'm sure have seen in your practice.
My question is: What is proper terminology for a knee that pops momentarily in gait?.
I like to keep good notes, I don't like lawyers(lol). I have been practicing a long time and can't remember ever coming accross terminology which described this particular deviation in gait.
If there isn't one, I recommend the term pops, as this would not only validate an old man, but also validate over 20 years of notes.
Kevin C. Matthews, CO/LO
Prescotts' San Antonio
Is this truly a rhetorical question? If so just ignore this response.
I think knee hyperextension during loading response would be a more
appropriate way of describing this popping deviation.
Patrick Gross, BMR(PT)
Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
..survey says...transient recurvatum or transient knee extension moment...
Do I win a prize?
Steve Burnett CO/L
Would the word thrust work ? ...the patient thrusts his knee into extension ( hyper-extension?)...
Or perhaps he forcefully extends his knee.
Maybe this patient takes advantage of a ground reaction force at heel strike to effect an extension moment at the knee in an attempt to compensate for week extensor muscles.
But then again, he may just be popping his knee into extension...
Best of luck. Please let me know what you settle on.
Jack Ben-Ezra, LPO
In school the Inman and Radcliff papers on abnormal gait pathologies
refers to it knee moves jerkily through midstance. I can't find
jerkily in the dictionary, though. I refer to it as an abrupt shift from
loading response into mid-stance.
Thank you very much,
Matthew C. Daniels, CP
We refer to that at a hyperextension thrust
We don't like Lawyers either.
We refer to that at a hyperextension thrust
We don't like Lawyers either.
We refer to that at a hyperextension thrust
We don't like Lawyers either.
I would use ends in terminal extension or ends in ? degrees of
hyperextension..many pt who glide into hyperextension do it
bilaterally
and if that is the case then your treatment of it will change because
if you
block it all you'll drive the pt nuts
I would use ends in terminal extension or ends in ? degrees of
hyperextension..many pt who glide into hyperextension do it
bilaterally
and if that is the case then your treatment of it will change because
if you
block it all you'll drive the pt nuts
I would use ends in terminal extension or ends in ? degrees of
hyperextension..many pt who glide into hyperextension do it
bilaterally
and if that is the case then your treatment of it will change because
if you
block it all you'll drive the pt nuts
I like the term eccentric extension force...sexy, huh?
Jim Price, PhD, CPO
Hi Kevin! I have also used the phrase pops into extension in my
progress
notes, but I also think forceful extension or terminal impact might
be
appropriate. Please post the other responses; I am interested in what
terminology others use.
Amelia K Denton, CPO
Hi Kevin,.
I've often heard PTs refer to this as a hyper-extension moment when then knee 'pops' into hyper-extension and then 'rebounds' to a somewhat semi-stable position.
Hope this helps.
Brad
Brad was an early mentor for me...He'd be surprised to know the infuence he had on my early education. He taught me early on to take pride in what YOU produce.
Kevin
May I suggest hyperextension moment?
Randall D. Alley, BSc, CP, CFT, FAAOP
I've always used snaps back into extension in my notes. Equally
non-medical.
Diane Tormey CO
I would call it a recurvatum moment, and mention when it occurs. A
moment does not imply the knee hyperextends, just that it is rotating in
that direction.
Wendy
Kevin, we describe that moment about the knee in our clinics as a
hyperextension thrust or HT
University of Michigan Orthotics & Prosthetics Center
You might consider hyperextension thrust at initial contact.
Darrell R. Clark, CO
Director, Orthotic Department
Rancho Los Amigos Rehab Center
562-940-7655
Kevin,
I see this quite frequently in stroke and head trauma patients who have now have a clinical disassociation with the involved side. They really do not know it is there or how it is functioning. In this case I just note that the knee is hyperextending on heel strike, and add that there appears to be a disassociation of the patients awarenesss in regard to that side causing a lack of voluntary control. In any case regarding your word pops it also sounds like you describe a noise. I would just describe the moment the hyperextension occurs and leave it at that. Keep it simple.
Rick/cpo
Depends a bit on the context of your note but some
possibilities would include:
-exhibits (extension) (hyperextention) (genu recurvatum) moment
-extension thrust
-locks into full extension
We refer to that at a hyperextension thrust
We don't like Lawyers either.
HI KEVIN!!
How is everything with you?
I believe that would be called an extension moment.
I googled this and came to this site:
<URL Redacted> . See the
descriptor of the 3rd photo. Perhaps he is fighting a knee flexion
moment? Is this with or without the brace?
Julie
(formerly Julie Bindi)
Julie Kean, CPO, CMF
Orthotic & Prosthetic Designs
3200 Sycamore Ct., Building 2B
Columbus IN 47203
812-372-9002
fax 812-372-9088
opdesignsindiana.com
I agree with Julie. Thanks all.
Wow, what a response! My original question follows, but I would like to thank those who responded. Some intellectuals in the group. Names I know and have come to respect. It was late when I wrote my original post, and later I remembered one of my favorite terms, I was just blanking, not that I haven't written pops a thousand times. I like extension moment after heel strike. Responses follow:
By the way, Mr. Prusakowsky requested we include names with responses so we would understand the background of the respondee, and I agree. There are a lot of names we know and respect and it adds credence (clearwater revival) to responses. Thank you for this list Paul.
Original Q:
I was writing patient notes this evening for a patient that pops his knee into extension after heel strike and before mid-stance. This is pretty typical in patients with weakness around the knee, as you all know and I'm sure have seen in your practice.
My question is: What is proper terminology for a knee that pops momentarily in gait?.
I like to keep good notes, I don't like lawyers(lol). I have been practicing a long time and can't remember ever coming accross terminology which described this particular deviation in gait.
If there isn't one, I recommend the term pops, as this would not only validate an old man, but also validate over 20 years of notes.
Kevin C. Matthews, CO/LO
Prescotts' San Antonio
Is this truly a rhetorical question? If so just ignore this response.
I think knee hyperextension during loading response would be a more
appropriate way of describing this popping deviation.
Patrick Gross, BMR(PT)
Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
..survey says...transient recurvatum or transient knee extension moment...
Do I win a prize?
Steve Burnett CO/L
Would the word thrust work ? ...the patient thrusts his knee into extension ( hyper-extension?)...
Or perhaps he forcefully extends his knee.
Maybe this patient takes advantage of a ground reaction force at heel strike to effect an extension moment at the knee in an attempt to compensate for week extensor muscles.
But then again, he may just be popping his knee into extension...
Best of luck. Please let me know what you settle on.
Jack Ben-Ezra, LPO
In school the Inman and Radcliff papers on abnormal gait pathologies
refers to it knee moves jerkily through midstance. I can't find
jerkily in the dictionary, though. I refer to it as an abrupt shift from
loading response into mid-stance.
Thank you very much,
Matthew C. Daniels, CP
We refer to that at a hyperextension thrust
We don't like Lawyers either.
We refer to that at a hyperextension thrust
We don't like Lawyers either.
We refer to that at a hyperextension thrust
We don't like Lawyers either.
I would use ends in terminal extension or ends in ? degrees of
hyperextension..many pt who glide into hyperextension do it
bilaterally
and if that is the case then your treatment of it will change because
if you
block it all you'll drive the pt nuts
I would use ends in terminal extension or ends in ? degrees of
hyperextension..many pt who glide into hyperextension do it
bilaterally
and if that is the case then your treatment of it will change because
if you
block it all you'll drive the pt nuts
I would use ends in terminal extension or ends in ? degrees of
hyperextension..many pt who glide into hyperextension do it
bilaterally
and if that is the case then your treatment of it will change because
if you
block it all you'll drive the pt nuts
I like the term eccentric extension force...sexy, huh?
Jim Price, PhD, CPO
Hi Kevin! I have also used the phrase pops into extension in my
progress
notes, but I also think forceful extension or terminal impact might
be
appropriate. Please post the other responses; I am interested in what
terminology others use.
Amelia K Denton, CPO
Hi Kevin,.
I've often heard PTs refer to this as a hyper-extension moment when then knee 'pops' into hyper-extension and then 'rebounds' to a somewhat semi-stable position.
Hope this helps.
Brad
Brad was an early mentor for me...He'd be surprised to know the infuence he had on my early education. He taught me early on to take pride in what YOU produce.
Kevin
May I suggest hyperextension moment?
Randall D. Alley, BSc, CP, CFT, FAAOP
I've always used snaps back into extension in my notes. Equally
non-medical.
Diane Tormey CO
I would call it a recurvatum moment, and mention when it occurs. A
moment does not imply the knee hyperextends, just that it is rotating in
that direction.
Wendy
Kevin, we describe that moment about the knee in our clinics as a
hyperextension thrust or HT
University of Michigan Orthotics & Prosthetics Center
You might consider hyperextension thrust at initial contact.
Darrell R. Clark, CO
Director, Orthotic Department
Rancho Los Amigos Rehab Center
562-940-7655
Kevin,
I see this quite frequently in stroke and head trauma patients who have now have a clinical disassociation with the involved side. They really do not know it is there or how it is functioning. In this case I just note that the knee is hyperextending on heel strike, and add that there appears to be a disassociation of the patients awarenesss in regard to that side causing a lack of voluntary control. In any case regarding your word pops it also sounds like you describe a noise. I would just describe the moment the hyperextension occurs and leave it at that. Keep it simple.
Rick/cpo
Depends a bit on the context of your note but some
possibilities would include:
-exhibits (extension) (hyperextention) (genu recurvatum) moment
-extension thrust
-locks into full extension
We refer to that at a hyperextension thrust
We don't like Lawyers either.
HI KEVIN!!
How is everything with you?
I believe that would be called an extension moment.
I googled this and came to this site:
<URL Redacted> . See the
descriptor of the 3rd photo. Perhaps he is fighting a knee flexion
moment? Is this with or without the brace?
Julie
(formerly Julie Bindi)
Julie Kean, CPO, CMF
Orthotic & Prosthetic Designs
3200 Sycamore Ct., Building 2B
Columbus IN 47203
812-372-9002
fax 812-372-9088
opdesignsindiana.com
I agree with Julie. Thanks all.
Citation
Kevin Matthews, “Rhetorical question...Responses,” Digital Resource Foundation for Orthotics and Prosthetics, accessed November 25, 2024, https://library.drfop.org/items/show/226407.
